Not My Job/No Need to Know

00:00:00: Welcome to the Signals Podcast.

00:00:02: Today I would like to welcome Dr.

00:00:04: Alastair Coburn, author of a large number of books on software development and co-author of The Agile Manifesto.

00:00:18: And i think that there is new talk in your future about what.

00:00:27: can you tell me how bureaucracies are genius?

00:00:35: Yeah, I love this.

00:00:36: This is so much clickbait but it's too good to pass up like we hate bureaucracies.

00:00:44: or when i go the genius of bureaucracie everybody goes what?

00:00:49: But It turns out that We have these deep Allergies to bureaucracy.

00:00:58: really know Hated word in all of like.

00:01:03: dealing with the bureaucracy is the phrase not my job, right?

00:01:07: It's just I. it's like that terrifies you now.

00:01:10: Now they're weird.

00:01:11: The weird thing is so here's there's the map.

00:01:13: That's that's weird and interesting.

00:01:16: when we design software We have actually designed a bureaucracy And it doesn't matter if you using functional programming or objects.

00:01:26: I'm up I'm a died-in-the-world objects guy.

00:01:29: There are objects passing messages to each other, and this always strikes me as people on telephones calling each other or sending emails right?

00:01:38: Sure even functional.

00:01:39: it's the same function called same thing.

00:01:42: so here is where gets interesting.

00:01:44: we have been wrestling with this topic of coupling in cohesion.

00:01:48: since Larry Constantine first mentioned I have tried to track down his original data because he said, okay.

00:01:57: I studied some programmer programs and the ones that are easier To maintain.

00:02:01: or this if i want to find is original data.

00:02:04: it Is nowhere?

00:02:05: It was just like there was no appendix Because we all go yeah baby Yeah right got it.

00:02:11: And then what the hell is it anyway?

00:02:13: so So then we've got these things That try to help us wrap our head around This.

00:02:20: What is this?

00:02:21: coupling and cohesion, right?

00:02:22: We got the thing like a single responsibility principle.

00:02:25: Responsibility driven design.

00:02:27: we've got domain-driven...we have all these things!

00:02:30: And none of us ever give us a hint as to how it's done when actually make up a little package code.

00:02:41: Right

00:02:42: How do you tell if its....and then did it.

00:02:46: So turns out that not my job.

00:02:50: So you make a little bureaucracy of these things with telephones, right?

00:02:57: And one calls up the other and says hey summarize all that transactions over last month.

00:03:05: Another thing he goes not my job.

00:03:09: so it turns out if we let people do some good naming like names there I'm going to go into talk kind of like, remotivate Rebecca Wolfsbrock's responsibility-driven design.

00:03:26: Kent Beckwood cutting them CRC cards.

00:03:29: they're perfect and if you bother to take the time just to write down what is the responsibility of this thing?

00:03:37: Now I want it be clear that this works for mega subsystem breakdown.

00:03:42: we are not talking classes or objects anymore.

00:03:45: You have a major system when looking at systems and you say, this one's good for that.

00:03:51: And the intention of this one is to handle it.

00:03:55: You've made already a little bureaucracy—you have already made a responsibility statement… Right?

00:04:01: …and then turns out its so natural for us... ...to have somebody saying, I'm going to do that!

00:04:10: The other person goes, That not his job

00:04:14: right?!

00:04:16: I taught people from the FBI object-oriented design once a long time ago, and they beginner class total beginner class totally new objects.

00:04:26: And They had this little subtle design I mean in the beginning of class and i go How did you do that?

00:04:34: what's it?

00:04:34: The one guy looks at this This one object.

00:04:36: he goes That object has no need to know

00:04:41: and how when needs to.

00:04:42: now yeah

00:04:43: No need to Know an hour and I can.

00:04:45: I Can teach FBI guys object-oriented design all day, all day long.

00:04:50: They've got it.

00:04:51: no need to know... No Need To Know!

00:04:53: You have NO NEED TO KNOW!

00:04:54: Right?

00:04:56: Give me the fifth transaction.

00:04:58: you have no need too know right?

00:05:00: so it

00:05:01: turns out.

00:05:04: So It Turns Out.

00:05:05: We've Got All These Fabulous Reflexes All Through Our Bodies and Oh By The Way we'll Get To About.

00:05:11: LLMs Are The Same they Have Like.

00:05:14: You Don't Need Any Coaching.

00:05:15: You Just Tell The LLM Say, hey treat this like a bureaucracy.

00:05:19: Look at my design.

00:05:20: it could be your .md files Could be anything and say just think about as a bureaucracy And apply those horrible concepts not in my job I don't need to know.

00:05:32: then tell me what you see.

00:05:34: It'll find the violations everywhere.

00:05:37: So here's the weird thing about these talks.

00:05:41: This is old school Thirty years old, thirty years old.

00:05:45: We were all teaching it.

00:05:47: but you know fads and fashions and things layer on top of things absolutely And something gets hidden in history.

00:05:53: But I would have never written about it because you know Rebecca where Sparock's written two books on it and stuff?

00:05:59: But i found this little twist that nobody had ever talked about and It's not my job.

00:06:04: no need to know game yeah.

00:06:06: And so I said, okay.

00:06:07: I have to bring this back out.

00:06:08: now one last thing on.

00:06:10: it is all of the design techniques somewhere off.

00:06:14: Have no sense.

00:06:15: had no gradient.

00:06:16: No better worse There's no gradient.

00:06:19: i used To do you know crc cards and would say Is This Better than This?

00:06:23: Would You Like This?

00:06:23: What Do You Think?

00:06:24: What It Is?

00:06:25: You Do Domain Driven Design.

00:06:27: It Just Says Ubiquitous Language.

00:06:29: Well Yeah Okay But That Doesn't Tell Me.

00:06:33: Is This better?

00:06:34: what are The Maintenance Characteristics This versus that?

00:06:39: right, I don't know.

00:06:41: So not my job and no need to know.

00:06:46: give you a gradient Right?

00:06:49: And so you can really say pretty quickly this one's probably better for maintenance purposes than that one boom like That.

00:06:59: so the talk is.

00:07:00: The talk is basically I can't spend too much remotivating but kind of restarting the conversation, you know what is design?

00:07:10: Design to me literally deciding where to put a line of code.

00:07:15: Sure like...

00:07:16: You don't know what that line of Code is!

00:07:19: Let's say someone hits the buy button right click double-click whatever.

00:07:23: we're gonna go do some buying stuff.

00:07:25: okay That's not a mystery.

00:07:26: The Mystery Is Do I Put It Here or Do i Put it here?

00:07:29: and THAT IS AN ACTIVE DESIGN?

00:07:32: AND THERE ARE LIKE Feud and no guides as to how to make that decision.

00:07:39: And guess what?

00:07:40: That's what the talks is about.

00:07:42: This this fantastic again, like you said it some older concepts But it's like a new terminology a new framing of The concept in a way that I think will resonate with people a lot.

00:07:53: Yeah

00:07:53: So here's what's interesting.

00:07:54: Okay so a lot of people are older and they know this stuff They've been through.

00:07:58: at least they read the book at least i heard them mean.

00:08:00: right all Right.

00:08:02: A lot of People Are Younger Got No clue About It Like Thirty Years ago.

00:08:05: Yeah, not a word for thirty years.

00:08:07: They got no idea.

00:08:08: so I have to plan For both people in the audience.

00:08:12: Yes always

00:08:13: yeah.

00:08:14: But then new people who maybe heard the word but know nothing stuff to kind of bring them along and all Older people who kind of know it?

00:08:22: But as you say It's a new framing.

00:08:24: So even though i'll go through some standard sorts Of examples What I want people is just To hear The phrase In their head over And Over again not my job, no need to know.

00:08:34: Not My Job.

00:08:37: Is it the job?

00:08:37: Or is It not The

00:08:38: Job?".

00:08:39: All true all standards and I found little examples in various places—in my writings and other places where there's a little subtext this little tiny text that says does This And Doesn't Do That.

00:08:52: so we already have it right There Right.

00:08:56: So the talk is like i'm going to warm people up...and I just want them To hear Right.

00:09:04: And then final note, I've been playing with the new problem and everybody says do a library or so those are boring.

00:09:13: So had to do a role-playing game little D&D Nice!

00:09:16: Gotta go something different arbitrary complex.

00:09:20: And i asked in one of the designs competing different designs Um...and I ask them make CRC cards including not my job.

00:09:27: The LLM produced very lovely little packet there Name key responsibilities sort of signature kinds of things and at the bottom Not my job to get out that eat it up.

00:09:40: That's not now The LLM has got but they're way too.

00:09:45: catch design drift, you know when your designs aren't static You move them around first off you push the code here?

00:09:51: You pushed a code there And suddenly this object that was kind of dead object Suddenly is gut like transactional guarantee responsibilities.

00:10:01: that just kind of drifted into it when you weren't looking.

00:10:05: And these phrases for the LLMs help to catch design drift, what I call out-of-alignment.

00:10:13: I'll talk about responsibility alignment test.

00:10:17: You have to have a responsibility sense.

00:10:18: It's got a name.

00:10:20: Let us call it a transfer transaction The bag account transfer.

00:10:24: What do we know?

00:10:25: You don't know anything from their names.

00:10:29: Okay, so it knows the two parties and how much.

00:10:32: Like that's nothing.

00:10:33: but if its got the responsibility to guarantee closure of the transaction whoa this is a different...this is different And people don't document that.

00:10:43: So-so The name could drift?

00:10:45: The responsibility can drift?

00:10:48: This method signatures Can drift.

00:10:50: How do you know they've drifted?

00:10:52: You never know which one was wrong.

00:10:54: Right Because It Could be That the Name Changed.

00:10:57: Then you didn't think about.

00:10:58: Yeah, sure.

00:10:59: Right?

00:11:00: So I'll talk about that just a little bit.

00:11:02: so it's cool because its all tough but as you say with the light coming in from a different framing and in a different way.

00:11:10: And what i love on my techniques is stupid.

00:11:13: simple It's just.

00:11:14: it's so simple Absolutely!

00:11:17: That doesn't give you brilliant designs But yeah gets you into generally safe space.

00:11:22: Do one of things that I find giving people a framework for decision-making empowers them.

00:11:29: And this thing about it being so intuitive is whack, because we did an experiment in the way back days In those days of late nineties.

00:11:40: The standard wisdom in academia was you can't teach undergraduate design until they've been programming and C++ for two years.

00:11:49: I don't know what that like.

00:11:50: They couldn't handle concepts or designs and now stop You mean for two year's?

00:11:56: No idea where and after two years gonna try to undo that and teach.

00:12:00: no gave me as a challenge A group of freshman students.

00:12:06: This was in Berkeley.

00:12:07: this is late Nineties so before too much at the internet like everybody codes it.

00:12:12: but there were Berkley's students, okay?

00:12:13: They're smart And and by they knew nothing on.

00:12:17: I wasn't allowed to coach him.

00:12:18: when I give them a design problem The classical coffee machine again requirements that change your requirements or the changes requirements right and it was fascinating to me.

00:12:27: they picked up like this, my favorite moment in that whole thing.

00:12:35: there's some guy of course who decided he is the middle man.

00:12:39: He would talk about his subject.

00:12:41: I. finally one lady goes can't you just introduce us?

00:12:55: That's how fast we get it, right?

00:12:57: We know that.

00:12:59: Right away.

00:12:59: so yeah It's fun.

00:13:02: Honestly I feel a bit weird because the material is sold And then i got excited like I wasn't even going to write The book or anything and go.

00:13:11: well just took completeness of this in my kit bag.

00:13:15: but as we started working with LLMs Oh my god, it works fabulously with the LLMs.

00:13:23: So now I'm doubling down turns out that good designs are more important for LLM's than they're for people because it'll generate two million lines of code before you can turn around and then ask to make a change has got.

00:13:37: go re-read There.

00:13:44: I hope that people in Germany.

00:13:45: Uh, I promise I'll talk slower than the actual talk.

00:13:49: No it's all good.

00:13:50: So so one of the things That you have

00:13:54: Introduced us at The

00:13:55: world as far As design is Hexagonal architecture?

00:13:59: So how would You say that something like hexagonal Architecture plays with this New way Of thinking about Design?

00:14:07: i did in my d&d game right.

00:14:09: so the first Thing i do Is i say I say, okay we've got two people.

00:14:15: They're on the same square one as a knife stab right?

00:14:17: Just do the simplest thing and then-and then uh... We just had a strength.

00:14:22: right if StrengthAve graded in StrengthBeeq And i found in the code that-that Right there In the STAB method.

00:14:31: It said.

00:14:31: it said If you know A is graded B print a print string.

00:14:37: What what the heck Is th-is The stab function?

00:14:42: knowing what language that, no need to know but not your job.

00:14:50: You start doing this and you get into his place with why does the app?

00:14:55: now we're using an SQL server?

00:15:00: Not your job, so you start pushing this thing and just apply No Need To Know.

00:15:08: these things have been arguing about forever like keep the leakage.

00:15:12: Why does the screen with a button know?

00:15:14: The business rule associated with that.

00:15:17: What so right, but the point is it's the hexagonal architecture Is totally derived from no need to know.

00:15:24: not my job sure.

00:15:26: and partitioning you get at the macro level Right some macro-level partitioning And and so we are in Hexagonal Architecture.

00:15:35: for those who know if you don't go look it up.

00:15:39: You have a system and here's the hardest thing that took us to draw you.

00:15:42: Have a system And you've had database.

00:15:44: now, you treat them both like they're both off-the-shelf Cots commercial of the shelf things if your not allowed to touch a single line of code.

00:15:53: But she may want to swap the database right?

00:15:55: Right so whose job is it?

00:15:57: to know the interface of the other?

00:15:59: The answer is neither

00:16:01: Neither

00:16:02: Either.

00:16:02: No, not my job.

00:16:04: no need to know don't do that Don't go there.

00:16:06: each of them is tightly wrapped perfectly owned by different teams.

00:16:10: So what you have to do?

00:16:11: Is add some glue code the adapter.

00:16:15: Whose job it is To know both interfaces and then do their thing right.

00:16:21: so we get from From no need-to-know.

00:16:23: We get exactly why That partitioning gets super simple to describe Very clear.

00:16:31: and that's the not my job in action.

00:16:34: That was fun to redirect,

00:16:35: it's awesome.

00:16:36: so when you think about how Software projects are developing And I know you talked a lot of people I look back at agile manifesto How we started into Agile?

00:16:52: Oh some of the different methodologies that are happening right now.

00:16:55: where do you see the future methodology going?

00:17:00: and because I think of methodology, design is in some ways hand-in-hand.

00:17:05: Yeah they're two completely different things but the way we approach software design often happens based upon methodology.

00:17:11: were using to build this up from first place.

00:17:13: cause when you don't have time to sit and actually take that concept as not my job at no need to know Because of the way we're approaching software run into problems.

00:17:30: agile helped with a lot of things.

00:17:33: Where do you think?

00:17:33: We are today is is Agile still the best approach?

00:17:37: Have you changed your thinking on this

00:17:39: though.

00:17:40: This is really well.

00:17:41: first of all normally I never I Never prognosticate about the feature because i'm just so bad at it like, I thought It was a bad idea to write a manifesto.

00:17:49: So don't look for me And look at my stock portfolio.

00:17:54: Just don't look to me for notes about fair

00:17:56: enough.

00:17:57: However, however the methodology and you got two questions in there one is working with agents In general of the others methodology.

00:18:05: so as a six months ago I was on record saying There was so much dust in the air that there was no shape even forming like Like my official position.

00:18:16: when she can take an official position because it's just there's just too much.

00:18:20: There was nothing, not even any patterns.

00:18:21: so I do experiments and i talk to people you know read the internet.

00:18:26: they're looking for some patterns and some patterns are showing up.

00:18:30: And Methodologies is now a topic again.

00:18:33: So methodology For me Is The Set Of Conventions That Team Agrees To Follow.

00:18:39: Like If You're Gonna Play Volleyball On Thursday that part of your methodology is part convention.

00:18:44: right whatever casual friday These are not all process things, these are social conventions and they drift over time.

00:18:52: And I got done with that topic entirely shortly after Crystal Clear the book came out.

00:18:57: so by two thousand eight-two thousand nine i just said this no more there's nothing there.

00:19:02: for me it's got limited impact.

00:19:05: and when i came up with The Heart of Agile which is Just a four words like you see on my coffee mug collaborate deliver reflect an improve.

00:19:13: With those four words You can't get everything And you get much more interesting, much more powerful.

00:19:19: Let's say interventions.

00:19:20: So I stopped doing any methodology consulting for like since two thousand nine thousand fifteen.

00:19:27: Suddenly it's a hot topic because we have a whole bunch of new players on the team that we don't understand We don't Understand them.

00:19:36: That's the first thing.

00:19:37: so i'm gonna like okay our allocation Of responsibilities Our processes You know our conventions It's all.

00:19:45: It's all new.

00:19:46: We're back in the game.

00:19:48: and so, the first part to answer your question with respect to methodologies turns out that all of the old software engineering practices... The good ones not bad ones like Waterfall.

00:20:02: but they are more relevant than LLMs for people because it moves fast.

00:20:09: So we were talking about tests Red-green refactor, but writing the test at the same time as you write to code Micro incremental development really small increments Good naming clean modularization hexagonal architecture shows up is an absolutely core concept.

00:20:32: inside of there.

00:20:33: Use cases and here's a little note for people.

00:20:36: I go use case Now, then I say split it into stories and then they say for each story.

00:20:41: I ask the LLM to expand that back in due use case.

00:20:44: And because a user's story is missing too much info You're asking them put it back in a used-case now you get actually decent spec to work from.

00:20:52: so So we have these like micro use cases as cool.

00:20:56: all of that testing regression tests All of that is even more important than before cuz its running unsupervised super fast.

00:21:07: So that's kind of interesting to watch.

00:21:09: Now, the next part is we've got a colleague with weird personality and I had to give them lecture for high school students And I said an agent really like a very smart high-school student.

00:21:25: They just show up differently every day.

00:21:26: You know they could be hard workers or lazy.

00:21:30: My example you tell it by your build something And it finds he can steal from a neighbor's living room.

00:21:36: So, shows up with the television set on its arm.

00:21:39: and why'd you do that?

00:21:41: Well... That was the path of least resistance!

00:21:42: It just right there.

00:21:44: I thought i told you not to steal.

00:21:47: Yeah my bad You know..I mean....it is like that.

00:21:52: How are you going to do?

00:21:53: or how will you crawl through a hole in the fence?

00:21:55: then think about saying don't crawl thru that hole.

00:21:59: so it is this omniscient guru sitting at a far mountain top And we type on a little teletypey fingers to our far guru.

00:22:08: that by the way speaks all cultures, all civilizations in the entire universe and whatever form is.

00:22:14: And it does not speak to us cause we're dot culturally were done.

00:22:17: And so he'll say and do things that are not in our culture goes Oh I didn't know that part about your culture.

00:22:23: my bad you know?

00:22:26: So That's like trying to find this and it's got these weird use the term hallucination anymore, you know it's got a probability that follows a probability pathway.

00:22:36: Right?

00:22:36: But I like high school students.

00:22:38: so my new way of describing software development in the current moment which is like June twenty-twenty is and we have eight right.

00:22:48: okay good thirty high school student show up on your doorstep in the morning asking what to do.

00:22:55: You give them all written instructions, and they run off.

00:22:59: How do you organize thirty high school students?

00:23:03: So you get Approximately what you want And some of them are lazy in summer.

00:23:08: good at summer stealing television sets.

00:23:12: Okay.

00:23:12: so that's part one.

00:23:14: But the bad part is you got a brand new set of Thirty High School Students every morning.

00:23:19: Yeah

00:23:22: Now make this work.

00:23:23: Basically, that's my mental model for what we're up against.

00:23:30: That would really make sense though?

00:23:32: Yeah

00:23:32: and so part of it is all that stuff about specs, nano-increments, all the people checking on.

00:23:40: people run the tests put in some hooks check to get... Make sure they didn't delete the test as somebody put it right knows oh Oh!

00:23:48: They just changed all the tests or they'll pass.

00:23:51: Kent Beck said, it deleted fifty-four of my tests.

00:23:54: That's the stealing stuff from living room aspect.

00:23:57: and even though he says don't do that oh yeah sorry I did that.

00:24:01: so thats where we are.

00:24:03: its a big topic.

00:24:04: methodology is interesting.

00:24:05: again.

00:24:08: everybody has got their opinions on how to make it work.

00:24:13: i think Henry Knieberg gave a talk The other day.

00:24:16: his group seems have found A way for them in.

00:24:20: a couple of people have got it, and other people are really busy selling .md files.

00:24:25: Here's my skill set!

00:24:28: And I'm still trying to make it do.

00:24:30: hexagonal architecture and walking skeleton in a repeatable way like i take a simple problem with four apps...I try to make work..i fix up the mv...i start over at

00:24:41: yep

00:24:42: that we're not there.

00:24:43: so from your perspective would you say the current state of soft development is an incremental improvement over what we had before?

00:24:53: or Is it light years beyond?

00:24:55: What we had?

00:24:55: I was very different.

00:24:56: It's very different because you've got thirty super brilliant high school students feeling television sets, you know All bets are off with what's actually gonna happen And in that sense its exciting.

00:25:11: if it weird for me picking up this topic i worked on methodology like fifteen or eighteen years and I kind of dropped it for another fifteen, or eighteen-years.

00:25:21: And now its popped back up.

00:25:23: um...and it's not that i'm going to write a methodology but nonetheless what are the conventions?

00:25:29: What are the rules?What are the processes?

00:25:31: uh so thats interesting.

00:25:34: yeah..it's....and let me see how is this gonna sit about AI in general?

00:25:39: Um, my bit summary on the human side is that a keyword is cognitive overload.

00:25:45: Yes!

00:25:46: And you'll find this everywhere.

00:25:48: Cognitive is the new buzzword right?

00:25:50: Cognative debt, cognitive overload, intention-debt and all of us... ...and in the way I summarize it your job as a human to find an error.

00:26:03: If all the bits are working, find you to ship it.

00:26:04: But there's an error in there but unfortunately just made twenty thousand decisions under your nose In the last ten minutes and Your job is to Find The Error.

00:26:15: So cognitive overload And that' s hot topic.

00:26:19: How we gonna slow down Enough That We Can Find There?

00:26:26: Thats our ultimate Job Because we get responsibility for

00:26:30: it.

00:26:31: The

00:26:32: high school students are all underage.

00:26:33: I don't care, okay?

00:26:36: It's like at the end of day we still have to file our paperwork and ship the thing... Well

00:26:43: so here is where i got that!

00:26:45: Like I get overloaded in a heartbeat..like I really can't do it.

00:26:49: So I was given by my friend the assignment And I encourage everybody take this on.

00:26:55: You're gonna write us off for bowling alley

00:26:57: right?!

00:26:59: the notepad where you check in and get the lanes manager that allocates lanes.

00:27:05: You do payments, they take their front desk thing... And then with pins to take them up-and down like what?

00:27:12: Then at lane head we got four people on the bowling court right?

00:27:15: And still have some humans there probably the actual owner.

00:27:21: Okay so write me a system.

00:27:23: well this isn't hard.

00:27:25: the LLM can do it for one shot.

00:27:27: The problem is you don't know what business.

00:27:29: You just create it, right?

00:27:32: Right?

00:27:33: so I've been working on this because one app is easy for apps as hard.

00:27:38: while walking Skeleton on hexagonal architecture and then in a. So What i did was i started writing the use case.

00:27:47: Well use cases are tedious by today's standards, so i asked him to write the usecase.

00:27:51: And well and i said why.

00:27:54: Actually, I don't have the mental bandwidth right now to find the error in that use case.

00:27:59: So I said slice it into twenty stories.

00:28:01: so did that and I stared at those and go...I'm actually not going to find an error but i can see it!

00:28:09: My brain won't do this.

00:28:11: So code up a couple of other stories they did there and then I said..i am lost.

00:28:16: I've got no idea what's going on.

00:28:18: And I go, I give up.

00:28:22: I have no idea and I don't know what business I had but i'm the owner just literally have No Idea What Business I am?

00:28:29: Then asked a friend of mine was telling about this and he uses swarms Of Agents.

00:28:34: any of them next day says yeah did it in a problem like oh You Don't Know What Business you Just Implemeted and I Don'T Know What business I Just Implement.

00:28:44: They're Not The Same Business.

00:28:47: This Is The Problem.

00:28:49: we

00:28:52: Right, right.

00:28:53: That's

00:28:53: so cognitive overload.

00:28:55: that's that's who we are Okay about.

00:28:58: maybe you have one more question

00:28:59: now.

00:29:00: Yeah So I wanted to see if is there?

00:29:02: One big message.

00:29:03: you want it give the audience take away Kind of summarize what would be talking about.

00:29:11: well i think The messages Those responsibility statements were never enforced by the tools, so nobody wrote them.

00:29:23: But I'm now moving into The LLM World and the LLMs can do this just fine.

00:29:32: So when you ask it because You don't have to Do the writing?

00:29:35: You could tune It but you Don't Have To Do the Writing.

00:29:38: Ask It to Partition by Responsibilities.

00:29:40: Maintain the Responsibility Statement.

00:29:43: Add They're Not My Job No Need to Know It Can Do All of That.

00:29:47: Sweet You can get the CRC cards in your .nd files, you know?

00:29:52: Um...you could detect design drift.

00:29:55: So it's like put this thought back on the table.

00:29:58: Responsibility statements plus not my job equals.

00:30:04: Not only good for humans who aren't so good at applying but they're really good for elephants that are good for applying It.

00:30:11: strangely what I though was just a piece of leftover.

00:30:16: you know, in my attic right turns out to be really relevant.

00:30:24: In today's situation and that's kind of cool.

00:30:26: why I'm then talking about it.

00:30:29: Right well fantastic hey thank you so much for joining me today.

00:30:33: Really appreciate the conversation And i would encourage everyone who is watching To go ahead and check out Invictler Summit.

00:30:45: Unabashed ad for the book, right?

00:30:47: So there's actually.

00:30:48: I wrote the book first.

00:30:49: Oh yes please.

00:30:50: and And they don't have a

00:30:52: fantastic guess.

00:30:53: one second

00:30:54: do you have a copy?

00:30:56: Strangely strangely see right there.

00:31:00: Simplifying software design to genius.

00:31:02: bureaucracies are not my job.

00:31:04: sharpens your designs with a picture of our man in In the bureaucracy caught on the cog wheels

00:31:10: caught in the cog wheels.

00:31:12: Lovely.

00:31:13: All right, thank you so much.

00:31:14: Awesome

00:31:15: Thank You So Much.